what I am saying and they bemcae a threat to the pyramid scheme and were intimidated, excluded and confiscated out of the game. Just read the lists of things the Crown forces looted before you insinuate that Maori were not economically successful for the time.160 years... People like you were saying that at year 1. Get over it it was last year. Get over it it was a couple of years ago. Get over it it was three years ago... Well the Foreshore and Seabed was last year - should we all forget about that? Why is it that the people who have the shortest history tell the people who have the longest history to forget everything? Do Jews not persue their family's property confiscated by Nazis? Or are they wrong as well?You people don't seem to understand the danger of what you are preaching. If the principle is Govt. wrongs simply go away after a while then logically the govt. can keep doing wrong things because they will become right over time, eg. F&S. Therefore Maori can use the state to take things off Pakeha and although wrong at the time will become acceptable with the passage of time. Are Pakeha going to be happy with this, or should they just accept it? The might is right game gets no-one anywhere. How can anyone "get over it" if it has not been overcome? The land does not become less stolen over time. Indeed it may become even worse due to our economic model as I have talked about in the post above. These issues have been dealt with in dishonourable ways by the Crown to this day, with prospects looming of even more shame if the current crop of major parties get their way.I think you touch on a pertinent point when you say "most people that live here want to live in a peaceful land and are happy to pay for it (Waitangi claims etc)." Waitangi claims to date are small beer. People think a token annual sum to try to shut people up is preferable to being upfront and aiming for a durable, global, systematic settlement. Some Pakeha, psychologically prefer to keep a grievence industry going to protect their myths (like Maori need hand-outs, We have to limit their expectations etc.) and keep Maori struggling, fighting amongst themselves and in almost constant litigation to squeeze out a few drops here and there - and woe betide them if they actually win anything reasonable and non-token in court - they get it confiscated and forbidden from going to the court again! 160 years of putting up with this crap and the attitude of people like yourself is too long. You are the one that is going to have to give it up - not me. But of course you don't want a history lesson because that is "racial claptrap"?And then you start your ritual incantation of Pakeha mythology as so many of your people do, and usually right after telling Maori that you don't think history matters anymore:"Maori were not living in nivarna prior to the next set of colonists arriving. It was a stone age culture. Life was hard and short. Starvation was a real possibility most of the year. I fully admit mistakes were made by various goverments over the years but hindsight is a wonderful thing."Let's break it down:Not nirvana - So where was there ever, industrial Europe? That statement is entirely redundant.Next set of colonists - Maoris are just immigrants like everyone else. So what? See my post above to my view on that chestnut.Stone Age culture - So? And? Many parts of Britains great Empire, like Ireland, were not far removed from that state either. What great culture and civilization has not been through that stage including literacy nad technology.Life was hard and short - Where wasn't it? Starvation was a real possibility - Bullshit. How can you starve with fish and birds all over the place, fern root everywhere? What do you think those huge pits held that are all over the place on Pa sites? Plastic bloody tikis!? I think you are confused with the first European settlers.Mistakes made - Understatement.Hindsight - This is perhaps the most outrageous of your comments. No. They were disputed and remarked upon and protested against and litigated against from day one. The Crown knew what it was doing. A cursory trawl through the archives will show that in abundance from the letter of the law itself to official correspondence and orders. These aren't accidents and confusion. Because you choose to pretend history is irrelevant you now have to claim that your own ignorance being corrected is "hindsight." Let's be crystal clear now: To pass the Foreshore and Seabed Bill the Crown was forced to make up a phoney baloney story about how things should have been in the past to effect the confiscation. It's called the "white man's touch." That is their stated mechanism of legitimate alienation. Each law they pass to validate the wrongs of the past is wrong NOW."Racial crap" - You are the one spinning all the way out stories in this discussion. Sure, they are bandied about by Pakeha like so many confiscated hectares (to paraphrase one of the Sir Humphery mob), and are sadly "normal," but they most certainly are prejudiced and ill-informed.As for being positive: Do you think I need to deunderstand history - to chose to be ignorant - to be positive? To accept the ocean of lies, on an overinflated and highly precarious lilo of presumptions upon which the complacent float? Positive? Any move towards honesty is positive.We should be honest how we feel. I know how you feel now. Then we must move on to accurate information and principles. We are about up to this stage now. And then with all of that out of the way, and the myths and misconceptions on both sides opened up then we can move forward to durable and just solutions. That is what I am interested in. What does each side want? Certainty. How do we get that? Consultation. Then comes the details and specifics and timelines. We haven't had those sorts of discussions in a proper format as a country let alone as questions the Crown has ever asked itself - we know their answer - it is what we have now.I don't seek to "constantly divide" per se. When you mention "your" forebearers etc. that is what you are doing and I only repeated it in the first paragraph for effect. I am divisive in the same way you are when you insist on your view prevailing over the other.

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